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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 15, 2019 19:56:50 GMT -8
"It's tough, because I am physically healthy. Nothing else seems to be wrong. There isn't anything glaringly obvious that could affect a pregnancy. And yet I just can't seem to carry a baby to full term."
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Post by Joelle on Nov 16, 2019 7:14:44 GMT -8
(OOC: This is a good link resolve.org/infertility-101/medical-conditions/multiple-miscarriage/ ) "It may not be you, or him. It could be that for some reason you just keep getting babies with chromosomal abnormalities. Or it may be a problem that won't be obvious unless you test specifically for it. Thyroid or adrenal gland problems can be things that aren't immediately obvious. So can immune system problems not specifically tested for. Of course...I realize that very little if any of this helps, and none of it takes away the pain and worry."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 16, 2019 9:16:01 GMT -8
"I convinced Kit that we should do some more of that kind of testing. Look for something underlying that could be the cause. I have to wait for three months for the appointment though unfortunately," Austen sighs.
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Post by Joelle on Nov 16, 2019 11:52:17 GMT -8
"That'll be hard." There's nothing more to say about that, really. Celine is tempted to add 'good things come to those who wait', but sometimes it isn't true, so she doesn't want to say that. "You have my empathy- and my prayers."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 16, 2019 12:40:12 GMT -8
"Thank you. It starts to feel incredibly isolating after awhile, doesn't it? It's good just knowing there are other woman in the community who can empathize with what I'm feeling and experiencing.
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Post by Joelle on Nov 18, 2019 18:14:10 GMT -8
"It does...the isolation is almost overwhelming at times. And as a pastor's wife, I get so tired of people misinterpreting Scripture or quoting half-truths! For example, being raised Greek Orthodox myself, the verse about God never giving someone more than they can handle is about temptation to immorality, and particularly so in Corinth at the time Paul wrote it. It does not apply to...so many things, miscarriage or any kind of death only being one of the things it doesn't apply to. That's just one example from my point of view, but when people say things like that- that don't help- and the rest seem to ignore you entirely, or to ghost you suddenly, you're right, it can be isolating. Or at least like you're being watched by people who don't really care and could use your pain against you. There were times when I could hardly wheel myself through the doors those first few months after," she admits. "Theo knew that- and my in-laws- but few if any others. It doesn't seem to be the kind of thing you would just blurt out- which is in part why I feel I can share it now, because you've admitted to feeling isolated, too. Strange- or not?- how we all think- at some point- that we're alone." She sighs. "And I'm almost sure I'm not the only one in BG who's experienced fertility issues of some sort. Far from it. But in any case...I will soon be a licensed Psy. D, so if you need to talk- or even before then- I'm here."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 18, 2019 23:43:40 GMT -8
Austen nods, taking her words in. "You know... I hadn't been to church in years before the miscarriage," she admits softly. "I fell away-- like a lot of people do-- and I didn't feel like I needed church. I wasn't sure what I believed, watching my sisters go through some of the crap they've dealt with. I'm not even sure if Kit believes in God or not. I haven't really told him that I've come so I don't know what he'd think of this. Somehow, the miscarriages have made me doubt more while simultaneously feeling the need for it more. Does that make any sense to you?"
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Post by Joelle on Nov 19, 2019 11:09:23 GMT -8
Celine nods. "Myself...I didn't doubt God, more...how other people perceived Him. As if I'd done something wrong and the miscarriages were my punishment. But if that were true, then all those people I just mentioned...Sarah the Matriarch, Rachel, Elizabeth- they'd have been punished with their barrenness, or at least that's how I look at it. Sometimes... things happen because it's life, although I'll never understand why more of that side of life happens to some people more than others. Anyway, I didn't want to be around people with the attitude that I'd done something awful, or who misquoted things or ignored me- but I needed... something. And it can be hard to think of exactly what would help yourself." She smiles ironically. "I can understand doubting a lot of things, though. Faith, by which I also mean trust, is hard to keep when you go through things like this. It's also easy to question just exactly what it is God wants to use you for. I've been in this wheelchair since I was 12 and still haven't figured that one out."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 19, 2019 11:43:03 GMT -8
"I have a ways to go to figure out most of my purpose too," Austen sighs. "It's frustrating to see so many people in pain, physical or emotional. Most of the time I don't understand why there's a need for that. I hate that people can be so evil. It makes it hard to trust once you've experienced one evil person. There's a reason I fell so hard and so fast for Kit. He seemed like a genuinely good guy and the first genuinely good guy that I'd met in much too long, you know?"
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Post by Joelle on Nov 19, 2019 12:56:04 GMT -8
"Boy, do I ever." Celine chuckles. "I met Theo at 17- he was 20...but I fell hard. People at school just didn't get...well... a lot, you know? Everything I'd been through made it really hard to connect with too many people of my own age. I suppose that part might be- a lot of times- to be expected, because disabilities can be heavy stuff, not to mention at so young an age, but it was more than that. I'd been in figure skating and horseback riding and he'd been in ballet. I could talk to him about that stuff too...the things I missed, the feeling of flying, the wind in my hair, those leaps... Gosh, there are days when I still miss it all so much...but I think in his own way, because of his love for dance, he understood why I miss it.Add to that that like you said a genuinely good guy is hard to find these days. And the way he saved my life when I was clinging to my wheelchair for dear life while trying to get up his parents' steps didn't hurt." She laughs, her eyes dancing. "He just bounded down the steps and scooped me up like it was nothing. He said "Nice to meet you," and I said, "Nicetomeetyoutoo. That's one word. By the end of the night we already had plans for a date- my very first. I told him that, too. I'll never forget. We were engaged on my nineteenth birthday."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 19, 2019 13:36:50 GMT -8
"Wow, that young, huh?" Austen sighs. "I'd give anything to have met Kit at that age. I was kinda stupid with guys. I blamed a lot of it on my parents being divorced. It... led me to some not so great places. And some pretty horrible guys. As you can imagine, they did some awful things. I was, umm, coerced into... ending a couple pregnancies. I can't help but wonder if that's the real reason behind the miscarriages."
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Post by Joelle on Nov 19, 2019 17:32:34 GMT -8
(OOC: OMG, so I just found out the coercion to end pregnancy happened to a family friend...twice. This crap is real, and heartbreaking. So glad we can explore stuff like this here.)
"I can understand why divorce might lead you to think like that," admits Celine. "Abandonment, or watching it, might, as well. The abandonment of their marriage thing happened to a lot of my adoptive siblings, and it's really scarred the younger ones, and the nieces and nephew, to the point that most of them don't even want to date, regardless of the fact that they would like to have families someday, exactly because they don't want to end up with people who might do that themselves. And the other thing, the staying away from church thing...I stayed away from church for five years after my bio parents gave me up for adoption. Only meeting Theo and his family gave me the courage to believe not everyone was faking this Christian thing, you know?"
Celine signs as the rest of Austen's story sinks in. "I suppose it might be as much of a possibility as anything, at least physically, but regardless, coercion is coercion." She shudders. "I would hope and pray that a person who would do that kind of thing feels regret. Not you," she clarifies. "Them. It's disgusting." She pauses to look into little Bryony's face and her heart aches at the thought of not having her here. "I'm so, so sorry."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 19, 2019 23:23:15 GMT -8
"It's been years and I've learned to push it back in my memory so I don't fixate on it," Austen admits. "I have days where it resurfaces and those are some of the hardest for me to deal with. Even though I logically know it's not my fault, because I didn't willingly choose it, I still end up feeling so guilty. I don't think I've properly grieved... any of this. The forced terminations. The miscarriages. The loss of my innocence as a kid. It feels somehow... wrong to begin on that now though."
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Post by Joelle on Nov 20, 2019 13:34:29 GMT -8
"Austen, there is no timeline for grief. Period." Celine says, gently but firmly. "This is not coming from me as a psychology student-though they do tell you that in classes- or even me as a pastor's wife. This is coming from me as a human being. And that's perfectly okay. Sometimes you have to just...get through, or you feel like you do, and it blindsides you later. Other times you're numb, not really processing well, if it just happened. And sometimes the grief happens right away. And even years later, there are repercussions and flashbacks. I could tell you so many stories- Theo could as well, I think- but you need to know that. It's okay to deal with it when and where it happens. Of course, staying in that place for too long is never good, but not dealing with it at all can harm a person more in the long run. And another thing, when and however you have your children, don't be afraid to let them see you hurting. It took me much too long to learn that- in fact, I still am. But grief is a part of life for all of us, and emotions are nothing to be afraid of...for women or men."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 20, 2019 18:49:48 GMT -8
"I try, I really do," Austen says softly, nearing tears again. "I just- I've always felt like I had to be the strong one. Even though I'm definitely not as strong as my sisters seem to think I am. My older sister, Brontë, turned to me after one of her children was kidnapped. She turned to me when she started having marital problems. She turned to me when they got divorced. She's been living with me ever since. And then there's Angie. Oh god, that poor girl has been through hell and back. After my parents got divorced, my mom ended up remarrying and that's when she had Angie. Turns out Angie's dad is the dictionary definition of an asshole-- excuse my language, but it's really the only fitting word to describe him. He was an abusive asshole. He assaulted Angie. She doesn't remember a thing about it, though. It went on for years and years. The man needs to be in prison."
Austen sighs, shaking her head. Her head has started hurting just from thinking about everything her sisters have experienced, a dull thud almost in tempo with hear oddly calm heart beat. "It's hard to believe your pain matters when you're surrounded by pain that's even worse. I know I shouldn't comoare but it was my first instinct, my second being to protect my sisters at all costs."
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Post by Joelle on Nov 21, 2019 17:16:11 GMT -8
Celine nods, thinking carefully about how to respond. "Sometimes, even in the same family, you can grieve the same situation in different ways. Some of my own story isn't the greatest, and trying to be strong for others landed me in the hospital once... but this is about you, so I'll leave it up to you whether or not you want to know."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 21, 2019 17:52:45 GMT -8
Austen sighs. "Yeah, I've gotten close to hospitalization from focussing on others too much. It's scary how much pushing yourself to do more and more for other people can lead you closer to the darkest parts sometimes. You'd think it would be the other way around, that it would help bring you further from the darkness, but in some cases it just serves as more of a... I can't think of the word I'm looking for... Distraction maybe?"
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Post by Joelle on Nov 21, 2019 18:24:53 GMT -8
"I understand what you're saying, I think. And you're right. Not to mention that putting it the other way- to bring us further from the darkness- would probably seem to other people to be more than a little selfish. Shouldn't we want to help others primarily because it's what Jesus would want, and not because it makes us feel good?" Celine laughs ironically again. "Look who's talking to whom here. It seems like it would be the other way around! But about different reactions in the same family...I think it's more that...I think this hurts and I'm sad in my own way, but they've lived it, you know? So the landing in the hospital was more like...we were both dealing with this, but somebody else had seen more, so I felt like I didn't matter at the moment. And by the time I realized it may not have been the best idea to not say anything about my own needs...it was too late."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 21, 2019 18:45:23 GMT -8
"My sister Angie is living, breathing proof of that too," she says softly. "She worked as a nurse in a psych ward until a little girl about thirteen came in. Something about that girl and her case reminded Angie of something. She ended up needing a stay at the ward herself before she moved in with me and Ronnie to continue her recovery. A lot has happened since then. She's started remembering more from before our mom kicked her dad out."
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Post by Joelle on Nov 23, 2019 13:38:57 GMT -8
"Jesus," she whispers, her heart aching for them both. "If Angie should ever need to talk to someone...my sister Claire went through some of that. Her abuse was more on the physical side, but her bio dad did try- once. Then she ran away. She got pregnant with my niece, was kicked out from where she was staying, and ended up in foster care. My God, when I think of kids going through... it makes me have some very...un-Christian thoughts toward their abusers," Celine admits with a shudder.
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 24, 2019 9:06:55 GMT -8
"Trust me, I get it," Austen sighs with a shake of her head. "The mere idea of people being that... Evil and corrupt is horrifying. What has to be going through their minds to be able to hurt somebody like that? Especially a child. Even moreso when it's their own child. How could they ever want to lay their hand on their own kid? Let alone do so much worse. It's sickening."
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Post by Joelle on Nov 24, 2019 11:59:45 GMT -8
"Yes..." Celine agrees. "But you say she's recovering now? Not that I think you ever really get over that stuff," she sighs. "Or the need to protect people from it- which is why it's so important to take care of yourself. In my case, I often put my needs aside because...because of this stupid thing." Celine glances to the side at one of the chair wheels. "I need to feel needed- valuable- even if we all do." There aren't very many people she's admitted that to, outside of her family. "But back to Angie. I hope and pray she gets the help she needs. And is willing to accept it," she adds sadly. "That can be the hardest part."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 24, 2019 13:48:43 GMT -8
"Angie's come a long way," Austen says softly. "I think having so many people in her support system really helped. And knowing what steps she needs to take. I honestly think it's a complete blessing in disguise that she chose to be a psych nurse of all things."
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Post by Joelle on Nov 24, 2019 14:44:19 GMT -8
"That's kind of why I went into psychology myself. I was given up after my accident, when my father thought he couldn't afford to deal with my new medical issues. I wanted to know how people think. And while it hasn't always been a comfort, sometimes it is. You know people say stupid things out of not knowing what else to say, sometimes. It doesn't make it hurt less, but it makes it understandable."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 24, 2019 22:05:37 GMT -8
"More or less," Austen sighs. "It's frustrating either way. At least for me, even if I did have all of that knowledge it would still be hard for me to put that into perspective."
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Post by Joelle on Nov 25, 2019 15:10:58 GMT -8
"It's not easy for me either, all the time. With the addition of the misinterpretation of Scripture I just mentioned, it can seem like people are downright hypocritical. Not to mention those who really are. On my worst days, not even the knowledge I have- either about psychology or the Bible- was sufficient. Sometimes life just hurts too much... by which I mean you really feel the losses. That doesn't change. But even then, it's something. Not enough to shield me from pain- no one is completely shielded from pain- but something, even if it isn't enough."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 25, 2019 22:06:22 GMT -8
"I wish pain just didn't exist," Austen sighs. "Or at least pain brought on by other people. There's already enough pain die to illness or natural disasters. Why must people be able to hurt each other too?"
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Post by Joelle on Nov 26, 2019 7:38:22 GMT -8
"Free will." Celine sighs. "And even that's not enough for me, if I'm totally honest. If we are free to choose, and there's enough pain from other things like you said, then why wouldn't we spend our time trying to make things better? Well, most people try, I believe. But those who don't? Maybe some of them are lashing out against their own pain, but it doesn't help the state of the world. And even if you apologize for your bad choices later, praying doesn't change the fact that you made them. All you can do at that point, I believe, is to ask God to help you not to do it again- but it takes effort on your part, too. 2 Corinthians 10:5 says," We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. "
(OOC: NIV version)
Celine lets that hopefully sink in before continuing. "But the part about taking every thought captive? A lot of people don't want to do it. It requires self-examination, and it seems we don't like anything that makes us look bad."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Nov 26, 2019 9:45:23 GMT -8
"Nobody ever wants to admit to what they did wrong," Austen sighs. "Especially the more wrong those things get. Unless they're actually psychotic and take pride in what they did." She shivers, that thought chilling her to the bone. "Why do you think it is that authorities tend to believe the stories male perpetrators tell regarding assault situations over the stories of the victims?"
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Post by Joelle on Nov 26, 2019 10:08:46 GMT -8
"That one..." Celine shakes her head, sighing. "Even I'm not really sure. But some people are still sexist, and others may not realize the degree of sexism that still exists in our society, up to and including things like that. I think others want to change it, but don't feel they can make an impact big enough."
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