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Post by starletinwaiting on Aug 31, 2019 16:09:04 GMT -8
"You're taking this way too calmly," she replies. And there's that bitter little laugh of hers again. She had braced herself for an explosive reaction. Anger. Hurt. Betrayal. Not this... whatever this is. Part of her wishes he had responded that way. Maybe it would make it easier for her to continue the conversation. Or to do next what she knows she ought.
With a shake of her head, she sighs. She rolls her head towards him, taking him in one more time. "You know I've always loved you, right?" she asks softly. "And that's not gonna change despite... things?" Another shake of her head. This all feels surreal. "I guess that means that I'm also..." She can't bring herself to say the word.
"But you do know what I'm trying to get at, right?" she asks, changing the subject abruptly back to the original point of the conversation.
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Post by Joelle on Aug 31, 2019 17:16:21 GMT -8
"Being shocked doesn't mean you have to turn into a monster, you know. I don't know what else I feel other than that, really, but the shock is there. And the guilt. Like, the feeling that I should have noticed. But...but...I've always loved you too, and that's not gonna change whether you're still that cute little girl in the clarinet section or not. It-it doesn't mean you...change personalities. Now that would be a problem. I do see...stuff we need to work out, but... forgive me for not having the words. It's all a little bit...jarring. But I've said what matters- that our feelings for each other haven't changed. "
He picks up his tea again, as if staring at the bag inside the mug can tell his future or something. He takes another sip. "Maybe I'll understand a little more if we start at the beginning. You mentioned my parents- God rest their souls, they died when I was still in high school. That's why we moved here. And your parents. And the youth pastor. How long have you had these...these feelings that you were uncomfortable in your body?"
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Post by starletinwaiting on Aug 31, 2019 17:47:05 GMT -8
"Awhile." She doesn't know exactly how long. If it started more recently or if it's something she's experienced all her life. All she knows is... "For as long as I can remember, I've just felt... I dunno. Out of place? But then I'd hear all the other girls at school talking and I figured I felt the same things they were feeling. And of course being from such a conservative family, it isn't exactly like I had any real education on any of this until... much later."
She sighs, thinking back to the time she spent taking classes at one of the nearby colleges. That was after she had Thaddeus. All the friends she made there... All the education she received, a lot of it not the academics she was even paying for. That's where she met Brennan. And it was from Brennan that she learned much of what she knows now.
"You know Brennan and Tracey?" she asks. After he graduated, Brennan had moved in a few streets down with his husband, Tracey. "The couple with the twin girls around Lucy and Therese's age?"
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Post by Joelle on Aug 31, 2019 18:22:08 GMT -8
Nathanael nods. "Yeah. I think you told me you met one of them in college. And...yeah, everyone goes through...awkwardness in their teenage years, I think. God knows I did- particularly after the accident that killed my parents and aunt. But...but this sounds... different. Even more different than that. Maybe it's because that type of thing doesn't seem to be talked about much. But I do know it must have been hard."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Aug 31, 2019 18:43:12 GMT -8
Anastasia nods, biting her lip. "Yeah..." she says softly. "It was actually Brennan who helped me through a lot of this." She never thought she'd admit that out loud. For the longest time, she never thought she'd admit any of this out loud. "I was... having a rough day on campus and he asked what was up. I think I must've already been pregnant with the twins at that point, because I was weirdly emotional. I told him everything."
Another thing she never thought she'd admit. How is she supposed to go on now and not spill everything to her own husband? "He introduced me to the, uhh, group that he was part of on campus." She swallows. "That group helped me to no end. You have no idea. They gave me all the literature I could ask for-- and more. They were a huge support as I figured this all out. I... stayed in touch with a couple of them. Brennan you know, but there were a couple others too."
She pauses, staring down at her hands, studying each line there as if she'd never seen them before in her life. "I told them first," she admits. "It felt safer that way, you know? But they were the ones who encouraged me to tell you too."
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Post by Joelle on Aug 31, 2019 19:24:59 GMT -8
"I'm glad you were able to tell someone. I don't think I would have understood at that point.I mean, I barely understand now- because of how we were raised- but...I'm not perfect." He shakes his head at himself. "See? Was that really so bad? We all have faults and things we could be better at doing." He clears his throat. "But...why four years- almost five? Gosh, they'll be five in September. But I just mean...what made you think you had to be afraid of what I'd think?- or whatever- I hope you know what I mean. I...I hope you'd know me better than that. Our families aren't gonna like it, but that has nothing to do with us as a couple." That's the part he's disappointed about- that she waited so long. That from that perspective it didn't seem to him to matter how long they'd known each other.
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Post by starletinwaiting on Aug 31, 2019 20:14:30 GMT -8
"I don't want to force you into something uncomfortable," she says softly, fighting back tears. "And if this is... You know that this is going to change the nature of our relationship. It's not exactly like we'll be your average... heterosexual couple." She sighs. "I know this is going to be really weird for you, I'm sure. And the kids. The poor kids aren't going to understand."
Anastasia pulls the blankets up to her chin. "I'd understand if you didn't want to stay with me after this. Especially if I decide to... you know..."
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Post by Joelle on Sept 1, 2019 10:36:34 GMT -8
"Yeah," he says softly. "I don't know what to do- about that. The changing the nature of our relationship thing. And you're kind of right- it's going to be a loss- a loss of the old you. I-I mean...I'm gonna miss making love to a woman, you know? Being with a man would be different- not that I ever have before now. I just know it would. And...it's gonna take time for me...for us, even...to get used to that. And the kids...they're gonna be so confused. I mean if I were them I'd likely think it was a game of pretend- of sorts... but it's not. And then they're not gonna understand why Mommy wants to be another Daddy- and that's a loss for them. And then there are the religious things- things I've always tried to figure out, but never quite could. Like whether being trans is wrong in the first place, or what you do when the Bible says God hates divorce, but then it also says all this stuff about how being gay is wrong. I-I've never figured that out and now it's happening to us. Being as honest as I know how to be...I'm confused about a lot. Not about you, but about how to react. I will never be confused about us. I love you."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 1, 2019 11:54:00 GMT -8
"It sounds like it would maybe just be easier if we got the divorce instead."
She hates that the words are coming out of her mouth. Never in a million years would she have thought she'd be the one initiating this conversation, especially not with Nathanael. He made her feel loved when all else crumbled around her. During her most vulnerable times, he was there.
Until this.
But half the time it felt like she herself didn't understand this, so how could she expect him to? It took her most of her life to get any grasp on this at all. She can only imagine what it must feel to be in Nathanael's shoes, having lived with and loved her for so long thinking of her as he knew her. As Anastasia. As the girl he grew up with through high school. As the girl he married. As the woman who carried his babies.
It's hard enough for her to love herself through this, though coming to this realization and acceptance has made it easier for her to do so at all. There are still days when she doubts herself. When she thinks maybe this is wrong. That what her parents would say is right. She's just confused. But she knows in her heart of hearts when she's happiest. And that's when she's able to feel comfortable being the real version of herself.
"I don't want to put the kids through something that's going to confuse them. Or make their lives any harder than it has to be," she adds in a whisper, fighting back the tears. "I don't want to make it harder for you either, Nate." She really does love him.
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Post by Joelle on Sept 1, 2019 13:01:11 GMT -8
"Let's just...think about it, okay? I-I mean...I could leave the Catholic Church. It would be hard- they were kind of my community after my parents and aunt died- but I could. And then, well...I have to work out some things, still. Like how I'm going to be able to be around my brothers and sisters and my cousins Fatima and Claudia. What they think. Will they hate me for still being in love with you? Then again, considering everything...do I even have a chance of finding someone else? Do I even have a right to expect to be that fortunate again? Even though finding someone else is the last thing I want to do, but I think you know what I mean."
He sighs. "I just feel like whichever way this ends, someone loses something. And I've lost so much in my life I can't think about it right now. For that matter, you would lose things too. You're right. And it's not fair. None of this is fair. That you've had to not understand it, and then put it aside for so long when you finally did. And because of the things we'd both lose. Right now. can we just agree that it's not fair- and that we love each other? Honestly, I don't think my conscience will be clear either way. If we divorce, it means I left you. If not...you may not be free to be yourself, at least around my family or at church."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 1, 2019 13:16:40 GMT -8
Anastasia's gut screams to argue it. That she doesn't want to put the kids-- or Nathanael-- through that kind of emotional ringer. That she doesn't want to pressure him into doing something she knows will make him uncomfortable, if not full time, at least around those he loves.
But her head tells her no. To just agree with what he's saying. Keep things as they are. Life has been good! How dare she think about giving that up in order to chase what people tell her is a whim. How dare she give up this wonderful life, these beautiful children, this loving husband, for something so selfish as being herself. Parenthood, marriage, life: these things are about sacrifice, aren't they?
"Maybe we should just... sleep on it," she sighs after a bit. Her head feels like it's about to spin off her body, the confusion has settled so deeply into her. "No need to make a decision now." At nearly ten o'clock at night. After having had such a long day moving. "It can wait."
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Post by Joelle on Sept 1, 2019 14:24:59 GMT -8
"That's what I meant. Sleep on it. Maybe for a couple of weeks, even. Let us get settled. The kids in school. Our jobs." He doesn't want to seem insensitive, but divorces and dissolution do take money.
"Then," he sighs. "Maybe in the meantime, we'll come up with a solution. There has to be one, right? One where we both agree. I-I mean-" The way it came out, it sounds like he thinks they're having an argument. "There has to be something. Because we love each other if nothing else. Neither of us should have to give that up. Besides, what kind of an idiot would I be if I let you go through this alone? You probably felt alone enough back then."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 1, 2019 16:29:51 GMT -8
Anastasia reaches out and gives his hand a squeeze, the first physical contact she's had woth him during the entire conversation. Turning to face him, she searches his face. "Thank you," she whispers, a sad smile cracking her lips. "I honestly couldn't have asked for a better husband to go through all of this with."
She's heard the horror stories, both from friends and from online support groups. Brennan has shared stories of his own friends who've gone through similar experiences. Not knowing how a man in a conservative religion such as her husband would take this news, she had felt the need to know what could happen and steel herself for the worst.
Gently, she runs her hand down his face, holding back tears as she bites the inside of her cheek. "I don't want to isolate myself," she says quietly, "and I know I've probably done that. Did you know that there was anything at all going on or... Have I just become that good at hiding things?"
((OOC: BTW, I'm bringing Brennan and Tracey and their family to BG also. A couple of their older kids are gonna be dating a couple of Josephine's characters. So if Nathanael ever wants to have a conversation with them or anything... Let me know. 😊))
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Post by Joelle on Sept 2, 2019 13:59:54 GMT -8
(OOC: Awesome! And Therese and Lucy will probably be glad to see their girls again.)
Nathanael is feeling a little emotional himself. "Thank you for understanding that I'm always going to love you and don't think I would do very well without you- but that I'm lost here." He places his hand over hers just to feel her, as if to reassure himself that she's still there.
He has to take a minute to think of her other question. "Before the move...I mean, when we were making the plans, yeah, I noticed you get a little...preoccupied. But before that? Not much. Not enough for me to make anything of it. When you would come home from college quiet, I just figured maybe you'd had a bad day and weren't ready to talk about it. I did get curious about the literature that fell out of your bookbag one time- but I figured you had gotten it for a friend."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 2, 2019 15:17:10 GMT -8
Anastasia groans. "Oh geez, you saw that? I was being so careful. I didn't want to raise any flags before I knew one way or the other what felt right. Please tell me the kids didn't come across any of that. They need to hear about this stuff from us first, not some random piece of paper they stumblr across."
It's her worst nightmare: any of the kids learning about this stuff from someone else. She wants to be able to address it with them in her own time and in her own way, and she knows Nathanael feels the same way.
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Post by Joelle on Sept 2, 2019 16:06:16 GMT -8
"Thaddeus was a little less than a year old, and you were pregnant with the girls. Nobody saw anything- nobody else who could read." He laughs a little, feeling the need to make a joke to relieve the feeling that otherwise he might come apart from emotion alone. "'What felt right?' I'm surprised anything could feel right, for either of us. Either way, we stand to lose so much. I suppose...it's not really a question of whether things will be lost, but rather what is worth keeping."
He feels he has no one to talk to about his own feelings either, at least no one whose opinion would be objective. But for now, this conversation is not about his own feeling of being lost. It's about them.
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 2, 2019 17:45:08 GMT -8
Anastasia sighs with a relief she didn't know was possible in this moment. "I don't want you guys to lose me, but... It feels kind of inevitable, you know?" she asks, rolling onto her side. Smiling, she pulls the blankets over both of them, the only olive branch she can think of. "Either that or... God only knows what would happen if we just kept living as we are. Which I guess is an option. I don't have to do anything about this. Would that... be easier for you guys?"
She sighs again, thinking about what that would mean. She's already done so much research about this stuff, but in this moment, all she can think about is him. Nathanael and their kids.
"I don't mind. I can- I can work around it," she insists.
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Post by Joelle on Sept 2, 2019 19:16:06 GMT -8
"Easier maybe. But not fair to you. None of this is fair, but you should suffer as little as possible...because I love you. You've suffered so much already not being able to tell me. This is gonna be hard- really hard- but..." He sighs. "There are no words, really." Because he has none anymore. "I do have an idea...but you may not like it." He is somehow comforted when she covers him with the blankets. "It would mean we could still be together, though. Sort of."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 2, 2019 19:45:31 GMT -8
Anastasia sighs again, turning to stare at the ceiling. As she gazes up, she notices a swirling pattern and subconsciously, she starts to count them. Almost as if she were counting sheep, she thinks.
Although the swirls distract her for a moment, she becomes once again acutely aware of Nathanael's presence and she's reminded of all the pain of their conversation. They've both been through so much... She's tired and she knows he must be too. "Honestly, at this point, I'm willing to try anything."
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Post by Joelle on Sept 3, 2019 6:38:06 GMT -8
"What if we divorced, but continued to see each other, and then we got remarried after you...? This will give my family time to come around. I couldn't take communion anymore in church because of the divorce, but it's a small price to pay."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 3, 2019 7:22:02 GMT -8
"You'd be willing to do that?" Anastasia asks softly, understanding how much this would end up costing him. "You'd be willing to still be with me? You know the church wouldn't like that relationship either, right? Nobody in the church is going to like us very much if we do any of this."
Anastasia takes a moment to breathe, counting the swirls on their ceiling again. An oddly soothing tactic. "Nothing about our relationship will be traditional. Especially if I decide to go through with the transition. You know this mean you'd be in a relationship with a man, and we both know how the church feels about same-sex relationships."
Another sigh as it starts to sink in. "My grandfather would be incredibly upset about any of this. You know how he used to be. Even just a hint of a gay relationship and he'd go off. Geez, if only he knew the truth... I definitely wouldn't have been his favorite grandchild. He'd be so disappointed.
"But it's voices like that that I've got to work to fight, you know?" The question comes soft even for this conversation. Anastasia remembers when Brennan has told her and smiles. "Brennan always says that those voices are always going to be there, but I've got to recognize them as outside of me and know that I don't have to listen to them. He's a really smart guy. I'm really lucky that he was there for me. Maybe you should get to know him better."
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Post by Joelle on Sept 3, 2019 13:02:21 GMT -8
"In my eyes, staying with my..." He chooses his next word carefully, trying to get used to this. "Spouse...is more important than if people like it or not. It'll be kind of fun- not the divorce part, but...the remarrying you as...the person you know you are. Only our closest friends have to know I married you twice."
(OOC: His responses to this thread are not the way I planned at all, actually, but I'm liking it. I read a Christian relationship book in college that addressed a similar scenario. It was a man and a trans woman, but the woman had not told the man she was engaged to that she used to be male. It was more of a "what would you do" type question, and I've been trying to figure out my personal response ever since.)
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 3, 2019 13:13:56 GMT -8
"You'd actually be willing to do that for me?" Anastasia asks softly. Maybe she should have seen it coming. Maybe she should have known that the man she fell in love with would be so accepting. But knowing the backgrounds they came from, she thought... She thought she knew how he would respond.
"I can't believe I got so lucky," she whispers. It could have gone incredibly wrong. "How did you come out so different than so many other people in the church? What did you do that was different? How can we make sure our kids turn out more like you and less like those other people?"
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Post by Joelle on Sept 3, 2019 13:30:49 GMT -8
"I suppose the accident started it," he admits. "Having to be in the wheelchair on bad days and seeing how people reacted to that. It was like they thought I was a different person on those days. Just because I'm in pain doesn't make me different. A little more crotchety, I admit- but not different. It's the same thing with you. Like I said, it doesn't mean you...change your personality. It's a change in your body, not your personality or feelings. Being marginalized myself makes me sensitive to that. So many people- in any church- seem to insist that God loves everyone, but are willing to treat people like us like crap because we're...not culturally acceptable yet. We're not scum."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 3, 2019 13:42:04 GMT -8
Anastasia allows his words to sink in, swallowing the returning threat of tears. "How do we let the kids know?" That's the big one. The question that's hung over her head from the start. "I've admittedly done some research on this sort of thing, and I can show the stuff that I've found, but I think this is something we'll need to tell them together. It's important they hear it from both of us. Especially if we decide to do the whole divorce and then remarry thing."
She starts to laugh again as the idea of that really settles in. "You'd really be interested in me still after going through all of this? It seems like a lot of work and a lot of changes."
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Post by Joelle on Sept 3, 2019 14:26:25 GMT -8
"I married you because of who you are inside. That's not going to change. And yeah, it will be a lot of work, and I don't quite know how we'll deal- financially, I mean. Telling the kids...I don't know. In the morning, why don't you show me the stuff you've found?" He sighs. "Children are remarkably resilient, and really, I'm not sure they're old enough to understand...." He gulps.
"My biggest concern, other than the kids is myself. Not just because of the physical limitations I have, and how they would be difficult to deal with alone for the time we're apart. That's true, but...I don't know what to think of myself anymore. I realize, because of how close we are, that neither of us would probably do very well without the other. But as much as I believe every word I just said, it's shocking on one level that this stuff came out of my mouth. That Catholic Nathanael no longer cares about...that stuff. This is so new to me that I don't even think I know anyone else who would get it. How I love you so much I would stay with you no matter what your body looked like. Who does that? Do I even know anyone who knows how to love that deeply? I feel like a freak, and I might need someone else to reassure me that I'm not crazy."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 3, 2019 15:11:44 GMT -8
"You feel like a freak?" Anastasia covers her mouth to stifle her laughter. She'd never thought of it that way. "Baby, we're just gonna feel like freaks together then. That's become a little bit of my daily life." She finds it oddly comforting that he feels similarly. "I think that'll make it a little easier for us, us both feeling kinda freakish. As for people who'll get it... Not to make it sound like I have a thing for him or whatever, but Brennan would probably know people. Or if not him, maybe Tracey. Or any of the other people I've been on contact with."
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Post by Joelle on Sept 3, 2019 15:46:01 GMT -8
"Maybe not a freak," he amends. "But still. A different person than I was. In one day. I mean, I've never thought that LGBTQ+ should be bullied- or worse- but...I didn't think I was one, either. Six years ago, or even six weeks ago, I'd never have guessed. I thought I knew myself, and then there's you, and the fact that I'm not really going to leave you- just marry you twice- I never thought I could suggest such a thing. It was one thing for you to suggest a divorce- even temporarily- but I'm talking about myself now. And then what am I supposed to say to people during the time we're apart, or after we get married again- that we're exes, but we're also not? My head is spinning. Boy, whoever said love made you do crazy stuff never knew the half of it." He sighs, tired, but unsure he'll ever get any sleep. That's another thing he'll miss when they're apart. Sleeping in the same bed.
He goes back to what she said about Brennan and Tracey. "I'd like to meet them. I mean- really meet them, not just say I know them because Therese and Lucy like to play with their girls. I'm desperate for anybody to understand this, really. And just how many people have you been in contact with that you think would get it? I mean, like I said, I don't know anyone who would stay with the same person as they made the changes they felt they needed to. It's cool to be the first one you know, but also kind of scary."
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Post by starletinwaiting on Sept 3, 2019 16:07:06 GMT -8
"Babe, I've been in online support groups for this kind of thing for... I guess a couple years now?" Anastasia gulps, thinking about how long she's been wrestling this. "There's bound to be plenty of other people with similar stories. Maybe not exactly like yours, with the specific religious background and everything, but definitely there are people there who've stayed with their spouses or partners through this. I'm sure there's groups out there specifically for spouses too."
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Post by Joelle on Sept 3, 2019 16:20:58 GMT -8
He smiles. "You're right. And freak or no, I'm glad I have you to be one with." He feels tempted to kiss her, or take her in his arms, but tonight he will let her take the lead. She must have felt uncomfortable for so long....
This makes him have just one more thought.
"Has it been difficult, you know...sleeping in the same bed, since you knew? Like, did you know you still loved me?" He realizes that probably sounds ridiculous, but isn't sure there's another way to put it.
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